Mormon Sacred Underwear

Interesting, I did not know this about Mormons.  Mormon Underwear

To the Mormon's visiting my site - a Question for you...

Comments

[ifly4fun]

I am a member if the LDS church and I think that you are absolutly classless hypocrites to post this picture of something that is very sacred to me, and most LDS people. Is nothing sacred to you? Have you no respect for someone else's beliefs? You critisize the Mormons for their beliefs, and constantly tell us that we are all going to hell for believing what we do. By attacking something that is so sacred to us you are showing that what you believe has no respect for others. Your teachings either do not include that moral value, or you chose not to listen when they taught RESPECT!!!!!

[Jeff]

Hello ifly4fun,

I apologize if you took offense to this, that was not my goal. However, I do not see what I said/did that was offensive? I simply posted a link and said "Interesting, I did not know this about Mormans."

How is that offensive?

[Taylor]

Are you feigning ignorance or do you really have to have this spelled out for you? You didn't simply make a comment about how interesting you thought a religious group's sacred undergarments were, you posted a picture of them. That's what LDS adherents find offensive. You also misspelled the word Mormon, making you seem not merely grossly insensitive about things some might find sacred, but also rather uninformed and sloppy. Perhaps you're the type who would see nothing wrong with displaying a picture of a crucifix soaking in a cup of urine, or stomping through a Navajo burial ground. Are you starting to grasp the concept?

[James]

He's actually just hoping he can agitate one of us enough to make his point that we are not christian. I for one, forgive this kind of innanity, and the people responsible for it. But we all know, that he knows how insensitive and unchristian it is to provoke others to anger.
But he never claimed to be a christian, so we must tolerate this type of behaviour as it will never go away, and only worsens, the louder we cry foul.

[Lee]

Mormon undergarments is only ONE peculiarity of their religion. Here are a few others: Their first prophet, Joseph Smith said there were men on the moon. God the Father has a body of "flesh and bones." He came to earth and had sex with the virgin Mary and they produced Jesus. Jesus and God the father were CREATED just like all the other gods before them. Jesus was a married man. Mormons have three heavens. Only married Mormons can enter into the greatest heaven. Dead people are baptised. The list of oddities and unusual beliefs is very lengthy.

[David]

The wearing of sacred garments isn't something new to Mormonism. If you go back and study your Old and New Testaments you'll find thousands of references to the wearing of holy garments. Take a look at many of the chapter in Genesis. All the New Testament authors refer to them. take a look at the Old Testament story of Joseph and his coat of many colors. When the Hebrew in that ancient story was translated to English by King James' scholars, they discarded the preferred translation of "marks" and instead selected instead to use the inane translation of colors—hence the techno-dream-coat of Joseph's Broadway story perpetuates a bit of a mistranslation. Joseph's coat was actually a coat of many "marks"—sacred marks reminding Joseph of his covenants to keep God's commandments—the same commandments given Adam, Enoch, and the same ones Moses brought down from Sinai. And the coat was pretty important because it signified the passing of priesthood authority from father to youngest son. No wonder those older brothers were upset enough to toss poor Joseph into that pit, sell him off and claim he was dead. They wanted their dad to give them his garments—and of course the authority to preside over the family which in those days was growing into the tribe of Joseph—eventually the largest of all the ten tribes of Israel. Instead of wondering why Mormons wear garments, maybe you should be asking why the rest of the Christian world abandoned that tradition. Garments to Mormons are sacred because they remind each one of sacred covenants—personal commitments with God—to keep his commandments. They are worn next to the skin and covered by clothing because they are sacred, not secret. If you're Catholic you wear a crucifix, usually against the skin and often covered by clothing. Some Catholics may wear a crucifix for public display, but most understand the personal, sacredness of the death and resurrection of Christ to not be too overt about that symbol and make a mockery of the central tenants of Christianity by making them available for public review that often becomes profane in public forums these days. In the same way, Mormons agree to wear their garment discretely and not expose it for public view in order to keep sacred the covenants they make with God—again similar covenants given to prophets throughout the Old Testament and New Testament times and again in our day. They are personal. They are between each man or woman and God. It is interesting that the word opposite to sacred is the term "profane" which comes from Greek and essentially means to make common or vulgar. By posting these photos of garments, you make for each Mormon, the remembrance of their covenants profane—in other words you make their covenants with God common place, public, held up for the profanity of public quips, and laughs, and vulgar commentary---the very profane comments that appear on your website. Your posting of these photos makes profane the very covenants that Mormons agree to take upon themselves as sacred. Now, possibly, do you understand why your posting of a photo of sacred garments could be extremely offensive to members of the LDS faith? You have made something sacred into something profane. In light of this discussion I would encourage you to reconsider your decision to post these photos. It is, after all, the Christian thing to do.

[Sean]

In this discussion you act as if Mormonism is a religion; when in fact it is a cult. Any "religion" that is founded by one person who receives – and only that person alone – coded message – who again only that person can read – that turns out to be holly scripture is very convenient indeed. Mormonism has all the symptoms of a cult: blind obedience, strange rituals that only the "faithful" can do, procrustean practises, tithing, bans on things like masturbation, caffeine, and alcohol, preposterous temples, rewriting established Christian doctrine for Mormonism's own purposes, and what I find most obnoxious of all aggressive proselytising. How would you Mormons like it if I knocked on your door at 11 at night, since everyone knows you all go to bed at 8, and told you the joys and freedom one experiences from atheism? But there is one thing I agree with Mormon church – and I use that term loosely – there is a hell on Earth and it is called Salt Lake City.

[Robert]

I find it interesting that the religious cry "foul" when someone offends them over an item of clothing, yet they think nothing of calling me and those like me "evil", "sinner", "pervert", "inhuman animal", "abomination to God" & "child-molester" simply because of the gender of my partner. The hypocrisy of religious people is a stench that rises to the heavens. Religion is a choice, unlike orientation. Talk about profaning the sacred.

[Jeff]

I have corrected the spelling of Mormon, that was a simple mistaken. Thank you for pointing that out.

A few thoughts:

To the comment "Perhaps you're the type who would see nothing wrong with displaying a picture of a crucifix soaking in a cup of urine, or stomping through a Navajo burial ground" Yes, I would see something wrong with both those situations, but I have not done those 2 things.

To the comment "But we all know, that he knows how insensitive and unchristian it is to provoke others to anger.
But he never claimed to be a christian" I am Christian. But I do not think it is non Christian to be angry or to make a point that makes others angry.

To the comment "maybe you should be asking why the rest of the Christian world abandoned that tradition" I do not believe Mormons are Christian.

[Jeff]

In response to the comment "But he never claimed to be a christian" I have just posted an article on what I believe as a Christian:

http://betweentheworlds.typepad.com/betweenaworld/2006/11/what_i_believe.html#more

[Sean]

With such unerotic underwear, it is surprising Mormons have so many kids.

[Dave]

You can't be neutral with respect to respect. You're either respectful or disrespectful. There is no middle ground. And what you are displaying proves what you're really about.

Like it or not, you are posting a photograph that all mormons would find very obscene and offensive. You probably didn't know it was obscene and offensive to all LDS people, and so originally it wasn't disrespectful, but now knowing this, if you continue to publish it and thereby unintentionally make a mockery of the covenants and symbols that LDS people hold most sacred - then you are showing great disrespect.

Please consider this.

[Jeff]

Due to the requests posted on this site, and the thoughtfull advice from my firend John Santic (http://towardshope.typepad.com/towards_hope/) I have decided to remove the picture.

However, to be honest, I do not understand why people are offended by it. I would welcome a conversation via email from a member of the LDS to discuss furthur.

[Dave]

I respect you for being thoughtful of mormon sensitivities. It proves that you are a respectful and thoughtful person.

I also never understood how negative depictions of Allah were so offensive to Muslims, until now. This has been a very enlightening experience.

In short, these undergarments aren't sacred really, but they do have a lot of symbolism that is sacred to mormons with and are symbolic of sacred promises that LDS people make in their most holy places (temples). These covenants aren't unusually really, but are covenants to obey Christ's Bibical teachings, but both the symbols and the covenants are considered so sacred that mormons aren't supposed to even talk about them outside their temples.

A lot of it is ingrained in the culture, but it's also engrained in the teachings. It's kind of like not taking the Lord's name in vain - because they believe these covenants are sacred promises between God and man, casual treatment of the symbols of those covenants is no less offensive.

[Ed]

Thank you for respecting the request by others to remeove photo. Being new to this medium and somewhat older, I am as interested in thinking about the medium as this specific incident. It is so easy to post a picture or comment without much thought as to its imapct and even more immortant its longevity. Once turned loose an image is free to float idefinitely in the internet ether. Fascinating. Twenty years hence I can go and find some picture or comment posted without carefull thought or at least attempting to get feed back from someone in the know, in this case a practicing Mormon. Perhaps it is the ease of the medium. A few key strokes and hit the enter bar and your comments are there for the world to view. No scrutiny has been applied. And then the responses are posted with again with no credibility. For the most part I am finding this medium to be another form of entertainment, to regard it more than this seems illadvised. One does not find the truth on the internet blogs only hyperbole. This is my first ever posting and most likely my last. Maybe one last comment, in a world gone crazy and devoid of rational thinking and values, with Mit Romney you will know what you are getting, his years of integrity speak for themselves. There will be no hidden surprises. The majority most likely will not see beyond his religious affiliation to the character and capabilities he could bring to the office of president. (with all the capabilities of the internet how come no spell check for this section?)

[Jeff]

Thank you for your thoughts Ed.

[Jeff]

A response from Andrew Sullivan here:http://betweentheworlds.typepad.com/betweenaworld/2006/11/response_to_the.html#more

[Larry]

First of all, I am a Mormon, and have been my entire life, and I have to say that I am not offended by the publishing of these garnments because, really, they don't mean anything to those who don't understand the symbolism attached to them. People can look and laugh all they want, and it doesn't take away from what they sympolize to me. I am, however, offended by some of the posts above mocking Mormons. What is wrong with what we believe in? We believe in obstaining from alchol - what's wrong with that? Why make fun of people for that? Trying to live a clean life is a good thing. Look at all the problems alcohol causes in the world. Also, I have to say that I understand why homosexuals don't like us, but the entire Christian world believes the same things we do (we believe in Jesus Christ and follow his teaching, so yes, we're also Christian). But I just want to say that we believe in loving and accepting all men, regardless of sexual orientation, which is more than I can say for most of the world. There may be some Mormons who demonstate hate towards homosexuals, but that is not what we're taught, and that isn't right. Don't condemn an entire religion because of a bad experience you've had with a Mormon.

[David R]

Mormons are offended if we know what their underwear looks like? Oh well, the Taliban are upset by small things, like their women talking to a man other than a family member.

Do I make fun of things like this? YES! Just like I make fun of some of the ancients religious beliefs... like the sun revolves around the moon... and if I could be alive in 100 years, I would probably make fun of things that are considered fact today.

Give me science over belief any day. Only a questioning mind can be intellectually honest... all the rest have "lemming disease".

[James Kerns]

Exposing the public to mormon underwear is a good start to bringing their beliefs out into the open for inspection. The freaks on the religious right call them a cult (that's what the evangelicals and pentacostals are) but they are really nothing more than a delusional collection of fools who believe the nonsense of a 19th century prophet named Joseph Smith who instituted the core practice of polygamy in America as a religious belief. Let no one deceive you about that. Mainstream mormons may not practice plural marriage, as do the mormon fundamentalists, but they believe in it as a matter of faith. In fact, the Attorney General of Utah refuses to prosecute known polygamists violators of the plural marriage statutes. HEY CRAZY MAN, YOU TOOK DOWN THE PICTURE OF MORMON UNDERWEAR THAT THEY CASUALLY VIEW IN SECRET MORMON CATALOGS ALL THE TIME - get a brain, they're not offended they just don't want people inspecting their idiocy. Put the photos back and while you're at it go figure out if they snatched the souls of any of your ancestors and performed a baptism of the dead on them. Yes indeed, that's the objective of their EXTENSIVE genealogical activity - they want to locate and capture the souls of all your dead relatives and then baptize them into mormonism. If you don't believe me look it up, and while you're at it ask the Jews their opinion of mormon genealogical research. And did you know that when the mormon freaks die and are transported into their celestial destination on some other planet they are going to become gods? Yep, you and your kids are going to be their theological subjects. It goes on and on as Lee said, and it's good to know who and what these people are before they start running for the presidency.

[Kathy]

Andrew,
Thank you for taking down the picture of the Mormon garments. I wear these daily, and I read your blog daily. I am not a blind sheep Mormon - but one who entered into this after much study and prayer. I have appreciated your articulation of what is sacred and profane to you. Thank you for uderstanding the same for me.

[Robert D.]

As neither a Mormon, Muslim, or Christian I find both the outrage and befuddlement on both sides of UnderwearGate highly amusing. Thanks for brightening my morning.

[Ann Warner]

To those who are amused:

I find it sad that American culture gains respect through degrading mudslinging. I guess Tocqueville was accurate when predicting the democracy failing in the US when "individualism is not rightly understood."

It is unfortuante that people can not respect those people that respect personal freedoms, like that of religion. Instead they are amused by those that make a mockery of our freedoms.

[Paula]

Instead of spending so much time on what kind of underwear Mitt Romney might be wearing in the White House, maybe a better topic would be that HE would actually keep HIS underwear on in the White House.

[Jeff de Ruyter]

To the comment "Instead of spending so much time on what kind of underwear Mitt Romney might be wearing in the White House, maybe a better topic would be that HE would actually keep HIS underwear on in the White House."

I initially agreed with you, but while what underwear he wears is irrelavent, it is the thinking behind why he wears it that is important.