To the Mormon's visiting my site - a Question for you:

Why are you so offended by this picture?  To the point (I posted it here) where I receive comments like:

- Is nothing sacred to you?

- Your teachings either do not include that moral value, or you chose not to listen when they taught RESPECT!!!!!

- Are you feigning ignorance or do you really have to have this spelled out for you?

- Perhaps you're the type who would see nothing wrong with displaying a picture of a crucifix soaking in a cup of urine, or stomping through a Navajo burial ground.

Yet, when someone says "Mormonism has all the symptoms of a cult: blind obedience, strange rituals that only the "faithful" can do, procrustean practises, tithing, bans on things like masturbation, caffeine, and alcohol, preposterous temples, rewriting established Christian doctrine for Mormonism's own purposes, and what I find most obnoxious of all aggressive proselytising" no one responds?  Why?  Why is a simple picture so offensive yet these statements produce little too no response? 

When I make the statement, and it is a statement I fully believe in, "Mormonism is a cult and Mormon's are not Christians".  Should that not ignite the fire of debate within you?  Or do Mormon's agree with me?

Comments

[Jeff de Ruyter]

Now I get this comment "Oh, no, you found us out. Boy, we Mormons are such a wacky lot, what with our crazy underwear and believing in Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon and everything. What a brilliant expose'. Bravo for you!"

Again, not addressing the real questions here. At least this comment pertains to how silly it is to be upset over this picture.

[Chuck]

Yeah, that was my comment.

Look, here's the deal, every religion has some funky and weird beliefs that seem strange to outsiders.

Let's start with Genesis.

The world was created in seven days? We're all literal descendants of one man and one woman? A man built an ark for 100 years and put all of the world's animals in it (at least the creeping and flying things) to survive a flood?

Then Moses parted the Red Sea?

Then a virgin gave birth to a literal "Son of God?"

Then that person rose from the dead?

All of that was and is taken on faith by about a billions Christians and nobody really says boo about it.

But, a teenager in New York claims to see God and Jesus and translates a book of scripture from gold plates, then, oh wow that's just too crazy and weird to even imagine!

Look, it's all about faith. We're all taking someone else's word for it and it's really pointless to say Mormons are a cult because they believe in some fantastic stuff and then ignore the fact that every other "Christian" and "non-Christian" religion also believes in incredible things as well.

And, as far as I can tell, almost every religion asks for some form of "sacrifice" and token of "devotion." For Mormons it's "funny underwear," "no alcohol" and "tithing," (which is in the Bible BTW).

Is that really any different than the traditions and rites of Catholicism or it's many Protestant offshoots?

I am a Mormon and I do believe in my religion. If I didn't believe in it, then there would be no point in me being a Mormon.

I don't think that being a Mormon makes me any more strange or unusual than a practicing Catholic or Baptist. I would also expect them to feel the same way about their religion as I do about mine, and I celebrate their faith and how they want to practice it.

And, yes, we do proselyte to spread "our" faith, but the last time I checked, we aren't chopping people's heads off if they don't accept "our" message. The worst you'll get out of us is "Thank you and have a nice day."

To borrow the words of Jesus, we Christians really shouldn't be straining at gnats when we are already swallowing camels whole.

[Benjamin Clark]

If anyone wishes to read a very balanced and fascinating book about Joseph Smith and the foundation of Mormonism read the book entitled Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling by Richard Lyman Bushman. It describes the foundational Ideas of the Temple as put forth by Joseph Smith, Jr. and is an excellent view in helping people understand why the Temple experience is so important to the Latter-day Saints.

Also regarding the Temples and the Garments I tell you that if everyone practiced the Christian virtures taught in the Latter-day Saint Temples this world would be far more advanced in many ways than it is today. We would see far less hunger and poverty (if any) than we do in the world today. We would not have wars and the conflicts we see everyday in this world. The garments are (to me) just a reminder (like a priests collar) about the covenants made in the Temple. Latter-day Saints aren't the only people who wear a sacred undergarment. Orthodox Jews wear a type of undergarment. The symbols written into the temple garment are symbolic of the fact that our bodies are temples (much like Paul talks about) and that when we follow Christ we follow Him in spirit and in following His laws (these Christian laws are mentioned in the New Testament) as well. This means being guided by the Holy Spirit and grounded in good works. That is what is taught in Latter-day Saint temples. I am not offended by the picture (by the way) here or the legitimate questions asked. The only time I am offended is when people start making statements that are based in ignorance and malice. You know the old "Mormons have horns" kind of statements. You could say that Catholicism is a cult (many Evangelicals believe that) because the Catholic Church was (at one time) about controlling the masses with fear (even death) during Medieval times. You could say that it was a cult because it didn't want the public to read the Bible and it took men like William Tyndale and others to sacrifice their lives so that their people could read the Bible in their own language. A lot of crazy things have been done in the name of Christ but I believe that His Spirit is correcting us all as a whole which includes Catholics, Evangelicals, Latter-day Saints, etc.

The sacrifices that are taught in Mormon Temples (by the way) and which participants covenant to make in those buildings are about giving to the poor, preparing the earth for the 2nd coming, placing Christ at the center of your life and so on. Joseph Smith didn't just dream all of this up. It's all contained in the Bible. It's just the way it is presented that may seem peculiar to some people. It is unusual. It shows how the Bible has infinite possibilities in religion and Joseph Smith's indominable spirit in that he wanted his family and friends to be with him forever is one of the ways in which the temple is brought into perspective. That is how Joseph and his people viewed the Bible as having tremendous possibilities as opposed to the limiting views that these people (most of them converts from various protestant and some Catholic denominations) had been frustrated with. They were looking for something more and they found it in what Joseph taught.

The Temple is that culminating work. It is very much like the ancient Jewish Temple mentioned in the Bible yet atuned to the Christian rituals mentioned in the Bible as well. It is a post-atonment temple if you will and if Temples weren't important the Bible would never have mentioned the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem where according to the Bible, Christ will come at the last day.

Joseph Smith wanted to bring heaven down to earth and to live that kind of life and invited everyone who would live that kind of life to join him in it. Nobody ever said he was a perfect man but the love the Latter-day Saints of his time had for him was indescribable. That includes my forefathers and foremothers who knew him and wrote about him. He really was a remarkable man.

Incidentally the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ("Mormonism") is well on it's way to becoming the next major world religion as it is growing rapidly throughout the world. A world religion has not immerged since the dawn of Islam. If the Latter-day Saints were not a proselyting people then how in the world would they ever find the people who are looking for what it is they are teaching? I know of countless people who after learning about the Church said "I have been searching for this for all of my life and now I have found it". Obviously that is not for everyone but those who are searching for this Church have every right to be taught about it and to receive missionaries just as all people have every right to say no thank you. If you want to take a look at an interesting website that presents Latter-day Saint teachings in a scholarly way and answers a lot of legitimate questions take a look at this one: www.farms.byu.edu/

[Larry]

Jeff, I think the reason why no one responded to that comment you mentioned is because it was so incredibly ignorent and mean spirited, that there's really nothing we can say that will sway that particular poster. I was offended by his comment much more than I was when I posted the photo, but that poster is obviously so full of hate towards Mormons that there's really no point in entertaining his comment. I will say that we believe in Christ, He is the center of our religion and our lives, and we belive in following his example and teachings as best we can. We are not a cult. We follow the Bible and Christ, and are really pretty normal, down to earth people. Beyond that, there is really nothing more to say regarding that comment.

[Brian]

Hey Jeff, as an active and practicing Mormon, I would like to answer the questions you pose. They may not reflect the thoughts and feelings of all LDS people, but I think many will agree with my comments.

The LDS Church has been criticized and persecuted since the very beginning. We are used to people saying all sorts of malicious and hurtful things, most of which aren't true. We know that there must be "opposition in all things" and don't expect this to stop (although we would love if it did!). In fact, at one time, the governor of Illinois issued an extermination order against the Mormons. Knowing that many of the prophets throughout history were stoned and killed, and that the Savior himself was crucified, how can we expect that we will escape persecution and trials?

Above, you listed a few statements that you thought would "ignite the fire of debate" within us. Truth be told, the statements you listed are not new and much worse things have been said before. For the most part, we choose to ignore them because we know they aren't true and are usually said out of ignorance or hate rather than fact or desire to learn what we really believe.

When you post a picture of something we consider sacred (the temple garment), many take offense because you are taking something we feel very strongly about and exposing it to the world - usually without proper context or explanation as to how we view it or what our beliefs are about it. There is usually a great deal of ridicule involved as well. We believe that the garment is "an outward expression of an inward commitment to follow the Savior". We also believe that “The garment represents sacred covenants. It fosters modesty and becomes a shield and protection to the wearer." For these reasons we considerate sacred.

I guess the concept of “sacred underwear” is odd and many are surprised when they find out that we wear them since they don’t know why we do it. I don’t blame others for seeing this as odd or being curious about our beliefs as many are “peculiar”. I think it’s great for people to investigate our beliefs. I personally love learning about other religions and why people believe what they believe. In our Church, we don’t try to hide the fact that we wear sacred undergarments. In fact, we talk about them openly in our meetings and publications. It’s only when this information is presented in a way which is meant to degrade or defile them that we take offense. It’s rare that an article is posted that puts things in a positive light. Here are two links from the Church’s official website that talk about temples and the garment:

“Purpose of Temples”
http://www.lds.org/temples/purpose/0,11298,1897-1,00.html

“The Temple Garment: “An Outward Expression of an Inward Commitment”
http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Liahona/1999.htm/liahona%20september%201999.htm/the%20temple%20garment%20%20an%20outward%20expression%20of%20an%20inward%20commitment.htm?fn=document-frameset.htm$f=templates$3.0

Much of the Christian world wears or uses the cross as a way to remember the Savior and His death. The LDS Church doesn’t wear or use the cross on its buildings, not because we don’t believe in Christ or what He did on the cross, but because we choose to focus on the resurrection and what that means to us. We believe that He did indeed die, but after three days He was resurrected and lives today! This is the message and hope of the Gospel. We know that everybody will die. But Christ lived again and as a result we will all be resurrected and live again. Again, this is where we put the focus. I have often thought it was odd to wear a cross around your neck considering it is where the Savior died. I have thought that if my brother was shot by somebody, I would never wear a gun around my neck to remember him. Despite my thoughts being different, I respect the fact that many wear a crucifix or display it on their churches. I understand why they do it and respect that. If I were to post a picture of a crucifix on a blog in the context of ridiculing it, I think many would be offended. This is probably a poor analogy, but I hope it illustrates what I was saying about the way things are presented as well as respecting other’s beliefs despite not agreeing with or understanding them.

I appreciate that you removed the picture from your blog even though you don’t know why it should offend. I respect you for realizing that some were offended and respecting them enough to remove it. I hope I was able to present things in a light that helps to further understanding.

[Mindie]

"" no one responds? Why? Why is a simple picture so offensive yet these statements produce little too no response?

When I make the statement, and it is a statement I fully believe in, "Mormonism is a cult and Mormon's are not Christians". Should that not ignite the fire of debate within you? Or do Mormon's agree with me?"

When you begin making degrading comments like that, there is no point in debating with you. You have not ignited a desire in us to question our faith. Only a desire to ignore comments like that. After making such a uninformed and unintelligent statement, the debate that would follow would be even less intelligent as you have already made up your mind and obviously are unwilling to see that maybe the "facts" your going on are quite less than adequate.

[Laura.]

Hi. I'm Mormon. Here's what I say: At least this shows you are open to learning about another religion, or cult or whatever else you're suggesting. I'd appreciate it if more Mormon people would refrain from making defensive, heated and crafty comments in response to things like this, and in this situtaion, have a neighborly discussion with you or a little Q&A exchange if that's what you're looking for. Maybe your outright posting of a picture of men and women wearing garments was an inadvertent request to learn more as opposed to offend. Which, by the way, anyway, after all, and for all intents and purposes, is an independent choice. To be offended or not to be offended. THAT is the (other) question. And if it's not your purpose, well, then, forget everything I said and enjoy your Amendment Numero Uno. Have a nice day!
Very truly yours,
Laura in California

[Jeff]

Hello,

I am no longer updating this site, please come to my new site:

www.worldsapartblog.com

Thank you!

[Dave]

I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and what I saw was a collection of fabric and thread hanging on two models.
The Temple Garment is only worn by members of the Church who, being found worthy, attend the Temple for the purpose of entering into Sacred Covenants with their Heavenly Father. The Garment symbolizes those promises and serves as a reminder of them. Accordingly, within it's appropriate domain the Garment has the capacity to shield members from temptations and influences that could threaten the integrity of those covenants.

[Marcie]

damm I just had to scroll down. I read the first one and it seems to be all words of hate towards you. What kind of religion lets there members talk in this way. I believe I would have a talk with thier bishop. I am sure they would be rushed into some secret meeting. Then they would be told to be more secret. Yes you are crazY! and so is your underwear! But I would put it on my teenage daughter so she would not have any one looking at her.

[AnnieBelle]

So they are defending what they were brought up to believe - no big surprise here. But what is surprising is what I believe to be the gross misinterpretation, or might I even suggest as someone else has, rewriting of the bible for Mormonism's own purposes? Several LDS commentators on here have said "its in the BIBLE you can look it up." Funny thing - these things are not there! Maybe in your LDS issued Bibles, but those probably are not cracked open so often because you have your own fun book and "other" testimony. Also, people find your temple garments ridiculous because they have no basis in the Christian bible, and most of Christianity reserves the right of religion for the many, not the few, viewing all as "worthy", not the other way around as in LDS ideology.